I remember telling a friend I didn’t feel comfortable showing my thighs, my full arms and shoulders, or my cleavage. And her answer was “but why? You have a rocking body!”
I was like, “I know, I just don’t think it should be equally available to everyone!”
This episode reminded me of why I love Yohji Yamamoto. "When I started making clothes for my line Y's in 1977, all I wanted was for women to wear men's clothes. I jumped on the idea of designing coats for women. It meant something to me – the idea of a coat guarding and hiding a woman's body. I wanted to protect the woman's body from something – maybe from men's eyes or a cold wind." And on why he likes black, it's "modest and arrogant at the same time. Black is lazy and easy – but mysterious. But above all black says this: "I don't bother you – don't bother me"." I think clothing can be high fashion and protect women's bodies from the male gaze at the same time, and that doesn't need to be religiously motivated; it could be about equity and social justice.
I really wanted to share that aspect of how much the LDS churches teachings on modesty negatively impacted my mental health starting at such a young age. But I also wanted to say what a wonderful episode Avery ❤️❤️
I want to share some personal experiences from being born into Mormonism.
I did leave the church as a teenager (because my mother stopped going so I was allowed to stop).
Years of Primary (preschool- age 11) and Young Woman’s (12-18) (How Sunday school is split up after the large gathering).
*The teachings I internalized regarding mainly modesty impacted me significantly. And negatively. I would get anxious and have panic attacks as young as age 7 when we were out in public (IN NYC!) and my little sisters were wearing tank tops. Terrified we’d run into someone from church.
I particularly remember a lesson in Primary where we were being taught about modesty, and the lady giving the lesson pointed to a /toddler/ wearing an adorable dress that *didn’t fully cover her shoulders* as an example of something IMMODEST and what NOT TO WEAR. I wanted to cry.
The double standards between boys and girls at BYU sports camp leading to some girls getting heat sickness…
The boy swimmers got away with walking back to the dorms (in 100°+ heat, no shade) with just swim trunks. But the gymnasts coming out of a barely air conditioned gym in leotards and biker shorts sweating profusely covered in chalk had to put layers on over our leos to make sure our shoulders were covered and our thighs weren’t showing.
Just a few of a million stories I know so many woman and girls have. And I’ve barely scratched the surface on the impact it had on my mental health.
I came from another high control religion, Jehovah's Witnesses. They don't have the Mormon underwear, but in the last six months they loosened a bunch of their restrictions. Women can now wear pants to their Kingdom Halls and preaching, men can have beards and don't necessarily have to wear ties. It's a hilarious attempt at moving into the mainstream. If you look into them you'll find that these are not the policies that they needed to change.
This episode is the best podcast I’ve heard in a long time. It’s the most thoughtful and insightful content on this subject I’ve ever heard. As someone who is adjacent but bot directly affected by this subject (but very interested in the real human side vs institutional side as the many facets you discuss are so relevant in our culture) I’ve always wanted to understand more. If there ever was a subject that absolutely needed your ability to understand and present nuance, this is it. Thank you for this brilliant work.
I went to a private religious school with a dress code. I always thought it was a little creepy that old men were examining girls’ neck and hem lines for “modesty”.
This was a good episode, but I thought it was going to be about modesty in general when it's really only about *religious* modesty. Are there non-religious movements toward modest clothing? The episode was interesting, but I would like to hear from people motivated to be modest not based on religion.
I really dug this episode and am so grateful to all the folks you interviewed for sharing such personal and vulnerable stories.
I remember telling a friend I didn’t feel comfortable showing my thighs, my full arms and shoulders, or my cleavage. And her answer was “but why? You have a rocking body!”
I was like, “I know, I just don’t think it should be equally available to everyone!”
This episode reminded me of why I love Yohji Yamamoto. "When I started making clothes for my line Y's in 1977, all I wanted was for women to wear men's clothes. I jumped on the idea of designing coats for women. It meant something to me – the idea of a coat guarding and hiding a woman's body. I wanted to protect the woman's body from something – maybe from men's eyes or a cold wind." And on why he likes black, it's "modest and arrogant at the same time. Black is lazy and easy – but mysterious. But above all black says this: "I don't bother you – don't bother me"." I think clothing can be high fashion and protect women's bodies from the male gaze at the same time, and that doesn't need to be religiously motivated; it could be about equity and social justice.
I really wanted to share that aspect of how much the LDS churches teachings on modesty negatively impacted my mental health starting at such a young age. But I also wanted to say what a wonderful episode Avery ❤️❤️
I want to share some personal experiences from being born into Mormonism.
I did leave the church as a teenager (because my mother stopped going so I was allowed to stop).
Years of Primary (preschool- age 11) and Young Woman’s (12-18) (How Sunday school is split up after the large gathering).
*The teachings I internalized regarding mainly modesty impacted me significantly. And negatively. I would get anxious and have panic attacks as young as age 7 when we were out in public (IN NYC!) and my little sisters were wearing tank tops. Terrified we’d run into someone from church.
I particularly remember a lesson in Primary where we were being taught about modesty, and the lady giving the lesson pointed to a /toddler/ wearing an adorable dress that *didn’t fully cover her shoulders* as an example of something IMMODEST and what NOT TO WEAR. I wanted to cry.
The double standards between boys and girls at BYU sports camp leading to some girls getting heat sickness…
The boy swimmers got away with walking back to the dorms (in 100°+ heat, no shade) with just swim trunks. But the gymnasts coming out of a barely air conditioned gym in leotards and biker shorts sweating profusely covered in chalk had to put layers on over our leos to make sure our shoulders were covered and our thighs weren’t showing.
Just a few of a million stories I know so many woman and girls have. And I’ve barely scratched the surface on the impact it had on my mental health.
I came from another high control religion, Jehovah's Witnesses. They don't have the Mormon underwear, but in the last six months they loosened a bunch of their restrictions. Women can now wear pants to their Kingdom Halls and preaching, men can have beards and don't necessarily have to wear ties. It's a hilarious attempt at moving into the mainstream. If you look into them you'll find that these are not the policies that they needed to change.
This episode is the best podcast I’ve heard in a long time. It’s the most thoughtful and insightful content on this subject I’ve ever heard. As someone who is adjacent but bot directly affected by this subject (but very interested in the real human side vs institutional side as the many facets you discuss are so relevant in our culture) I’ve always wanted to understand more. If there ever was a subject that absolutely needed your ability to understand and present nuance, this is it. Thank you for this brilliant work.
I went to a private religious school with a dress code. I always thought it was a little creepy that old men were examining girls’ neck and hem lines for “modesty”.
This was a good episode, but I thought it was going to be about modesty in general when it's really only about *religious* modesty. Are there non-religious movements toward modest clothing? The episode was interesting, but I would like to hear from people motivated to be modest not based on religion.
This was a great listen - thank you!
This episode really moved me and I’ll be revisiting it many times. Thank you!
ooh can't wait to listen and what a fascinating topic! (plus mormonism, your fave!)