Old, wizened me in Seattle, who listens to AOI: “wow it’s so interesting to read about just how intricate camouflage is, and how it reflects a panoply of decisions made over time to further the mission of warfare.”
Younger me from Texas, upon reading the first two paragraphs: “Fuck yeah, Trufelman. Get ‘er done.”
Really appreciated the mention at the end about how camo is received in the Caribbean. I was never into it, but when I studied abroad in Nicaragua, our prep packet specifically called out that we were never to wear camo print. It’s very triggering for people, many of whom have personally experienced war and US backed aggression (my host mom told me about hiding Sandinista fighters in her childhood home during the Contra War). During a trip to El Salvador, we stood in the exact spot where our guide had to hide during their civil war from a US-trained soldier who tortured his neighbor by pulling out their nails one-by-one. I wasn’t consciously avoiding camo, but that study abroad experience was when I decided to never wear overtly military inspired clothing again. Not out of some reverence for service members, but because I have no desire to romanticize the clothing worn to commit these (and many other) atrocities.
I live in St. Louis, and walking around as camo-clad guardsmen with tanks occupied my community during the Ferguson protests was enough to turn me off the print even more. Many of us in the US are so removed from military violence that we forget/trivialize the original purpose of these uniforms.
Your discussion of camo reminded me of the work of a Bay Area artist, Stephanie Peek, who for 21 years painted a series of international camouflage patterns -- every country's is different -- on 10" x 10" panels. https://www.stephaniepeek.com/camo
Shout out to CADPAT, the OG! The woodland and desert CADPAT patterns are being phased out now for a single Multi-Terrain (MT) pattern, which Canada developed en lieu of licencing another Multicam variant (even though our SOF wear Multicam). CADPAT is part of the Canadian Armed Forces brand image, our distinctive visual identity. In a garrison setting, it's a signature look. In the field, it works very well too, both in visual and near-IR spectrums, better than Multicam in many situations. A lot of folks were hoping we'd adopt Multicam though, since it's easy to buy Multicam gear for yourself. Fun fact: authentic CADPAT MT has tiny maple leaves embedded in the pattern.
We’re not in the tropics as often as we are in the North Pacific and Atlantic Ocean’s. We are producing a t-shirt that will have our rank and Naval Ensign on it so that you can take off the outer shirt.
Great episode. I’m a boomer who’s worn and used dad’s WWII swag and shopped real army surplus stores.
Would have liked a comment on the now passé trend of camo in bright pinks and teals in commercial culture, especially for kids. Sold a lot of LLBean backpacks in digital camo.
This was a great episode, thank you. When I was a kid in the 70s we would go shopping in Albuquerque, near the university, many Rastas were there and always wearing what I now know are M65 jackets (thank to you for pointing that out). it was great to hear someone else note that the Rastas of the early days had a such a baddass revolutionary vibe, that was enhanced by their choice of camo and surplus wear. Lucky dube, Peter tosh, Steele pulse and many of the greats all looked so cool in the military gear.
Good ep, but do you seriously think J6 was a coup?? That’s boomer brainrot. It was a Q-tard riot, trespassing, assault…etc., but decidedly not a coup. The military wasn’t involved, no government officials were involved, just feds egging them on. That’s why that guy kinda laughed at you; he was talking about real coups and you brought up J6. Anyways, it was otherwise a nice episode.
My sons never wore camo anything until this summer when the national guard was unleashed into DC our home. How both have thrifted old Vietnam forest camo cargo pants.
I wonder what it means. Because they don’t like the guardsman. Don’t like that they are here. But they don’t have masks. The genuine villains are masked. The masked ones take parents and destroy families. They can’t articulate what the camo says about power. Or what part of the power they are borrowing when they wear them.
The anecdote about the Marines "wanting to be seen a mile away" in the MARPAT digital camouflage doesn't exactly capture what the Marines meant. The genesis of MARPAT did not come from thinking about hiding on a battlefield but instead other military and peacekeeping operations.
In the 1990s, after the Gulf War, it seemed like there was no chance of major military conflict for the US, but there were lots of military operations that were not quite war (think Blackhawk Down and Mogadishu). During this time period a Marine General named James L. Jones was responsible for such an operation, humanitarian relief during the Bosnian War. At this point in time, the US standard camouflage pattern (Battle Dress Utilities, or BDUs) was ubiquitous. Just as this episode noted about Multicam, BDU was worn by the US military, by hunters, by civilians as a fashion or counterculture statement - and by foreign militaries and even terrorists. It struck General Jones one day as he was reviewing intelligence about Serbian militias who could threaten his troops that those militias were wearing the exact same camouflage he was.
A few years later General Jones became the Commandant of the Marine Corps, the top official. He immediately started a program to develop a custom camouflage for the Marines. This was partially practical (to lessen the risk of troops shooting each other because they could not tell who was the enemy), partially bragging (Marines cultivate a reputation of being tougher than everyone else, and if your uniform is unique then everyone will know who is baddest on the block) and partially just a fashion trend, as was pointed out often during the series (Marines love their distinctive uniforms).
The Marines were not blind to the combat purpose of camouflage, however. Unlike the Army UCP, MARPAT uses dull colors like MultiCam, and the woodland and desert versions blend in well with their respective environments. Part of the reason the digital pattern was adopted was because of how it performed when viewed by night vision sights, a more and more relevant aspect of camouflage. But the "seen a mile away" comment was not referring to ineffectiveness when hiding from bullets but the desire that Marines in a foreign country would be intimidating because everyone would know by the uniforms that the Marines had landed, and not some lesser military force.
I just saw ‘Wake Up Dead Man’, the latest Knives Our mystery at the movies. One the funniest jokes in the whole movie is sight gag near the end that perfectly ties in with this episode. No spoilers, but you have to see it, the movie is great too!
As a veteran of three uniforms, this brings back some memories. Of the three I wore, I am still nostalgic for the Woodland Battle Dress Uniform (BDU). It had its problems, but it worked for the most part. The problem was that every US military branch was wearing it, and if you weren't paying attention, you could mistake one branch for another. Case in point, I watched an Army sergeant embarrass herself while trying to correct a female Air Force member who was wearing earrings, which is allowed under USAF regulations.
So, when the USMC got its new MARPAT to distinguish itself from all the other branches, the Army got a case of “Camo Envy”. As is the case with most Army decisions, some General got a visit from the Good Idea Fairy and decided that an internally developed pattern would be a better way to go than Scorpion. This is because the Army is insular and would rather double down on its own poor decision than swallow its pride.
Unfortunately, there were real world consequences for adopting a camouflage pattern that didn’t blend in. I have anecdotal reports from fellow soldiers that people were injured and killed because they were unable to conceal themselves. There is a scene in the war documentary, “Restrepo”, where a soldier directly blames the UCP pattern for the death of a soldier. A more humorous comment from a former First Sergeant was that, in absence of a VS-17 panel (a construction orange piece of fabric used to signal aircraft), you could use your UCP top and be spotted just as well.
The problem with OCP is that it is too popular now. All of the branches have adopted it in one form or another. I’m just waiting for a General to get a visit from the Good Idea Fairy and try to make an outstanding uniform in both the literal and figurative senses.
As a Virginia Beach native who grew up around military stuff this was an incredible episode! So many of these things just seemed so commonplace that I never realized there was such an interesting story behind it
Old, wizened me in Seattle, who listens to AOI: “wow it’s so interesting to read about just how intricate camouflage is, and how it reflects a panoply of decisions made over time to further the mission of warfare.”
Younger me from Texas, upon reading the first two paragraphs: “Fuck yeah, Trufelman. Get ‘er done.”
Really appreciated the mention at the end about how camo is received in the Caribbean. I was never into it, but when I studied abroad in Nicaragua, our prep packet specifically called out that we were never to wear camo print. It’s very triggering for people, many of whom have personally experienced war and US backed aggression (my host mom told me about hiding Sandinista fighters in her childhood home during the Contra War). During a trip to El Salvador, we stood in the exact spot where our guide had to hide during their civil war from a US-trained soldier who tortured his neighbor by pulling out their nails one-by-one. I wasn’t consciously avoiding camo, but that study abroad experience was when I decided to never wear overtly military inspired clothing again. Not out of some reverence for service members, but because I have no desire to romanticize the clothing worn to commit these (and many other) atrocities.
I live in St. Louis, and walking around as camo-clad guardsmen with tanks occupied my community during the Ferguson protests was enough to turn me off the print even more. Many of us in the US are so removed from military violence that we forget/trivialize the original purpose of these uniforms.
This was an incredible episode, thank you for making it!
Your discussion of camo reminded me of the work of a Bay Area artist, Stephanie Peek, who for 21 years painted a series of international camouflage patterns -- every country's is different -- on 10" x 10" panels. https://www.stephaniepeek.com/camo
Loved the whole series!
Shout out to CADPAT, the OG! The woodland and desert CADPAT patterns are being phased out now for a single Multi-Terrain (MT) pattern, which Canada developed en lieu of licencing another Multicam variant (even though our SOF wear Multicam). CADPAT is part of the Canadian Armed Forces brand image, our distinctive visual identity. In a garrison setting, it's a signature look. In the field, it works very well too, both in visual and near-IR spectrums, better than Multicam in many situations. A lot of folks were hoping we'd adopt Multicam though, since it's easy to buy Multicam gear for yourself. Fun fact: authentic CADPAT MT has tiny maple leaves embedded in the pattern.
We’re not in the tropics as often as we are in the North Pacific and Atlantic Ocean’s. We are producing a t-shirt that will have our rank and Naval Ensign on it so that you can take off the outer shirt.
Thank god the RCN went with all black. Although its hot as hell, its much better looking than the relish the Army and RCAF wear.
I don't understand why the RCN went with an all-black uniform. That's the last thing I'd want to wear on deck in the tropics.
Great episode. I’m a boomer who’s worn and used dad’s WWII swag and shopped real army surplus stores.
Would have liked a comment on the now passé trend of camo in bright pinks and teals in commercial culture, especially for kids. Sold a lot of LLBean backpacks in digital camo.
This was a great episode, thank you. When I was a kid in the 70s we would go shopping in Albuquerque, near the university, many Rastas were there and always wearing what I now know are M65 jackets (thank to you for pointing that out). it was great to hear someone else note that the Rastas of the early days had a such a baddass revolutionary vibe, that was enhanced by their choice of camo and surplus wear. Lucky dube, Peter tosh, Steele pulse and many of the greats all looked so cool in the military gear.
Didn't see this when it first dropped. Must have been hidden.
Good ep, but do you seriously think J6 was a coup?? That’s boomer brainrot. It was a Q-tard riot, trespassing, assault…etc., but decidedly not a coup. The military wasn’t involved, no government officials were involved, just feds egging them on. That’s why that guy kinda laughed at you; he was talking about real coups and you brought up J6. Anyways, it was otherwise a nice episode.
My sons never wore camo anything until this summer when the national guard was unleashed into DC our home. How both have thrifted old Vietnam forest camo cargo pants.
I wonder what it means. Because they don’t like the guardsman. Don’t like that they are here. But they don’t have masks. The genuine villains are masked. The masked ones take parents and destroy families. They can’t articulate what the camo says about power. Or what part of the power they are borrowing when they wear them.
The anecdote about the Marines "wanting to be seen a mile away" in the MARPAT digital camouflage doesn't exactly capture what the Marines meant. The genesis of MARPAT did not come from thinking about hiding on a battlefield but instead other military and peacekeeping operations.
In the 1990s, after the Gulf War, it seemed like there was no chance of major military conflict for the US, but there were lots of military operations that were not quite war (think Blackhawk Down and Mogadishu). During this time period a Marine General named James L. Jones was responsible for such an operation, humanitarian relief during the Bosnian War. At this point in time, the US standard camouflage pattern (Battle Dress Utilities, or BDUs) was ubiquitous. Just as this episode noted about Multicam, BDU was worn by the US military, by hunters, by civilians as a fashion or counterculture statement - and by foreign militaries and even terrorists. It struck General Jones one day as he was reviewing intelligence about Serbian militias who could threaten his troops that those militias were wearing the exact same camouflage he was.
A few years later General Jones became the Commandant of the Marine Corps, the top official. He immediately started a program to develop a custom camouflage for the Marines. This was partially practical (to lessen the risk of troops shooting each other because they could not tell who was the enemy), partially bragging (Marines cultivate a reputation of being tougher than everyone else, and if your uniform is unique then everyone will know who is baddest on the block) and partially just a fashion trend, as was pointed out often during the series (Marines love their distinctive uniforms).
The Marines were not blind to the combat purpose of camouflage, however. Unlike the Army UCP, MARPAT uses dull colors like MultiCam, and the woodland and desert versions blend in well with their respective environments. Part of the reason the digital pattern was adopted was because of how it performed when viewed by night vision sights, a more and more relevant aspect of camouflage. But the "seen a mile away" comment was not referring to ineffectiveness when hiding from bullets but the desire that Marines in a foreign country would be intimidating because everyone would know by the uniforms that the Marines had landed, and not some lesser military force.
I just saw ‘Wake Up Dead Man’, the latest Knives Our mystery at the movies. One the funniest jokes in the whole movie is sight gag near the end that perfectly ties in with this episode. No spoilers, but you have to see it, the movie is great too!
As a veteran of three uniforms, this brings back some memories. Of the three I wore, I am still nostalgic for the Woodland Battle Dress Uniform (BDU). It had its problems, but it worked for the most part. The problem was that every US military branch was wearing it, and if you weren't paying attention, you could mistake one branch for another. Case in point, I watched an Army sergeant embarrass herself while trying to correct a female Air Force member who was wearing earrings, which is allowed under USAF regulations.
So, when the USMC got its new MARPAT to distinguish itself from all the other branches, the Army got a case of “Camo Envy”. As is the case with most Army decisions, some General got a visit from the Good Idea Fairy and decided that an internally developed pattern would be a better way to go than Scorpion. This is because the Army is insular and would rather double down on its own poor decision than swallow its pride.
Unfortunately, there were real world consequences for adopting a camouflage pattern that didn’t blend in. I have anecdotal reports from fellow soldiers that people were injured and killed because they were unable to conceal themselves. There is a scene in the war documentary, “Restrepo”, where a soldier directly blames the UCP pattern for the death of a soldier. A more humorous comment from a former First Sergeant was that, in absence of a VS-17 panel (a construction orange piece of fabric used to signal aircraft), you could use your UCP top and be spotted just as well.
The problem with OCP is that it is too popular now. All of the branches have adopted it in one form or another. I’m just waiting for a General to get a visit from the Good Idea Fairy and try to make an outstanding uniform in both the literal and figurative senses.
Great episode - it also provides more evidence into the theory argued convincingly here, that the world is becoming more homogenous and more boring... https://www.experimental-history.com/p/the-decline-of-deviance
As a Virginia Beach native who grew up around military stuff this was an incredible episode! So many of these things just seemed so commonplace that I never realized there was such an interesting story behind it
Is it just me, or are the two soldiers in camouflage among the palm trees a lot more obtrusive than the guy in the background?